I Lopez: Well, good morning everyone, and thank you for attending day two of the disability matters.
I Lopez: Europe conference and awards live.
I Lopez: stream and we won't have to wait any longer, although it's pretty early for everybody.
I Lopez: We.
I Lopez: We have some housekeeping please note that if you are a native captioning or subtitles there is a feature denoted by the icon see see at the bottom of your screen.
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I Lopez: And with that we are going to bring to the stage our disability mama or disability queen the CEO of springboard consulting they deem vogel they Dean it's day two, how are you.
Nadine Vogel: I know I know good morning everybody so.
Nadine Vogel: I was gonna say it's so good to see everyone, I feel like i'm seeing everyone at least virtually on the welcome back to D to have disability matters Europe 2022.
Nadine Vogel: I hope you all had time last evening to reflect and reflect on some of yesterday's learnings and consider how you're going to apply what you've learned.
Nadine Vogel: to your own situation to your own company to your own practice because that's it right it's taking what you learned it's interesting, but then the most important thing is how do we apply it.
Nadine Vogel: You know by participating in an event like this you're clearly showing your commitment to disability inclusion, but commitment itself is just the first step it's the beginning.
Nadine Vogel: it's about taking action to see the change that you want to see whether on your team or in your organization and it's about giving you reasons to act.
Nadine Vogel: And that's part of thinking about what you learned and applying it to your own situation is okay this worked for this company, how can it work for me how can I work from my team.
Nadine Vogel: So we want you to be successful, and because of that, once again we have a fabulous lineup of presenters.
Nadine Vogel: We also have something very special taking place a little later this morning, which is our award ceremony, so I wanted to sit back relax enjoy the show, so to speak.
Nadine Vogel: And as we mentioned yesterday disability matters Europe 2022 has been dedicated to the people of Ukraine.
Nadine Vogel: And, especially those folks that have disabilities or caring for people with disabilities who may not be able to get out be safe, get what they need, so I hope you will join me in saying lori to Ukraine.
Nadine Vogel: As you all know, an event like this does not take place, whether it is in person or it is virtual without our amazing sponsors so once again I want to thank birla.
Nadine Vogel: for your support and your just undying friendship and in making this happen.
Nadine Vogel: As folks know we were going to be in person, we had a transition because of code, but perilla has stayed on as our presenting sponsor and we just want to thank you.
Nadine Vogel: Our next sponsor is European University in Rome, where this was supposed to take place.
Nadine Vogel: They are bronze sponsor and again an ongoing support are you heard from them yesterday you're talking about their programs for.
Nadine Vogel: Diversity and disability management which we've had the honor of being involved with to develop and and actually I served as as guest lecturer.
Nadine Vogel: Many times on the topic so again European university just want to thank you and our annual global sponsor diversity MBA so Pam mckelvey Thank you and your team for staying with us as our sponsors.
Nadine Vogel: Now, as I mentioned yesterday for those that can't be joining us, we need to still put the information out there, we need to educate folks and make them needs to make them wish they were with us.
Nadine Vogel: So I want to make sure that you're on social media hashtag D m E, you are 2022 We ask that you snap chat tweet and post.
Nadine Vogel: and take screenshots post about what you're hearing about what you're learning.
Nadine Vogel: Again, we want to put information out there, make those that didn't attend wish they did, and will want to attend next year, but it's also even to.
Nadine Vogel: promote the information that you're learning to your own teams and colleagues, so that we can.
Nadine Vogel: magnify the education they were putting out at the conference, so I hope that that was helpful and I think that we're going to go ahead and get started, so I am I am just delighted.
Nadine Vogel: To be able to be the facilitator for our first presentation this is going to be a fireside chat on intersection ality and specifically.
Nadine Vogel: What it means.
Nadine Vogel: And how it manifests itself for people for being included in the workplace, so you already know me media mogul your moderator and we have two panelists that.
Nadine Vogel: They really don't need introductions but i'm gonna have to talk about themselves a little bit anyway, so we have a good chat and San do from.
Nadine Vogel: IMG a world programs.
Nadine Vogel: And we have a very dear friend old friend of not does it mean these old but.
Nadine Vogel: An old brandy disability matters i'm Adrian I railing tracks he's the global diversity and inclusion advisor Anglo American gentlemen Hello friends, how are you.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Good morning.
Nadine Vogel: Good morning, so I am really excited about having this conversation today, I was.
Nadine Vogel: I knew was going to be great because I was energized just by our pre conversation right in talking about this so before we get into the topic itself i'm not sure why don't you just give us just a minute or two about who you are what you do and then Adrian will do the same for you.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Perfect Thank you very much Nadine and more good morning everyone hi i'm good chatting most people refer to me as no, no, my pronouns are they here.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I am the director of programs that little girl world Olga is the largest global federation, make it made up of 1800 plus organizations to champion sexual orientation, gender identity, gender, expression and six characteristics rights.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Our hashtag is queer democracy in action.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I like to think of us as the the gay version or the queer version of the UN.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And prior to joining over the world, which are joined recently this year I was, I spent 16 years working at the the un's International Labour Organization.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Whereas promoting fundamental principles and whites at work, specifically on non discrimination so looking forward to this discussion, thank you.
Nadine Vogel: Thank you you've been busy.
Nadine Vogel: Adrian returning to the DM stage.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Good morning, then I absolute pleasure, as always, to join into the on the team, and this is probably my fourth or fifth event so it's nice to be here and my name is Adrian harlan and trapped my pronouns are they them.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Adrian much easier to move out surname takes too long to talk about.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I recently joined Anglo American as their inclusion and diversity advisor but had previous roles at E and ei and boys network for equality and inclusion.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: For the past previous five years, focusing on global inclusion diversity strategies and looking after after arm's length, I suppose, other corporate organizations.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: i've now moved into the internal space should I say slightly different world and still learning and starting a new new role here so and then much just looking forward to talking about intersection ality and how that plays a part in the ongoing.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Diversification strategies for organizations to help evolve this well, thank you.
Nadine Vogel: So, so I just want to start out for everyone, you know we say intersection ality what the heck are we talking about.
Nadine Vogel: You know corporations have been really great over quite some time now to have our disability resource groups employee resource groups constituency groups and one on LGBT Q, one for women and one for race and so that's The idea is that.
Nadine Vogel: Are we really all just one thing, do we really just go into that one box well heck no.
Nadine Vogel: So it was a good thing that companies create sort of creating these resource groups, but on the other hand, I think it's pushed us into these you are this one thing you're this box, if you will.
Nadine Vogel: And I want to have a discussion about you know breaking the box right, because I think there's something that folks are not talking about and for our audience, you know we were preparing for this.
Nadine Vogel: No, no, I think you know you brought up it when we talk about intersection ality there's really three parts to it right there's the individual piece.
Nadine Vogel: There is the company level and the societal level, and I think that well it's important to talk about all three I think we want to focus on the on the company level, but we can't do that unless we start with the individual right so so now let's start with you and.
Nadine Vogel: amaze us with this information, please.
Gurchaten Sandhu: You know, I think, thank you very much, nothing I think it's a sexuality has to start with ourselves, and we have to realize that we are instructional on so many grounds we often hold.
Gurchaten Sandhu: We hold different identities, be it.
Gurchaten Sandhu: On race, ethnicity on disability on HIV status on sexuality and gender identity and.
Gurchaten Sandhu: One identity, may be the primary or the driver and in certain in certain situations and whilst in other situations and other identity, may be a another driver, and I think the fact is that we get to be the masters of those of that that which.
Gurchaten Sandhu: of which identity is the prominent or the primary.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Which are the secondary or tertiary or but other identities in the background, but I think the first question is the self realization piece here that we do have that no I think a lot of people forget that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Even with them from a sexuality perspective, I think you know a lot of people think Oh, you know i've come out and that's it.
Gurchaten Sandhu: But then there's another thing that sort of creeps up on you, is, which is your gender identity right and or your gender expression, and you have to start understanding those aspects of yourself or your your race or your.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Migratory status your class, so I think that's really, really key to understand and and I think celebrate even what comes into that is a another piece is and what's essential to that is accepting differences well.
Gurchaten Sandhu: intersection ality is a key and, but we also have to learn how to accept and celebrate differences and understand differences.
Gurchaten Sandhu: So that's one number two and then you know how those in the second hour I, as an employee or a part of that company bring those identities into the workplace.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And in sexuality even exists, even in the company, you know, are we intersection of look, you know you do not have one department doing.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Everything you've got different departments doing different things, therefore, you have an intellectual firm you, you know one person cannot do everything.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And also, in your team, you have different types of people, not everyone can be a leader, not everyone can be the executive assistant.
Gurchaten Sandhu: In a put me in an executive assistant role, I think I would fail in organizing your life, let alone organizing my own I need someone to come and do that there's different skill sets.
Gurchaten Sandhu: So I think it's that sort of it plays at different levels, and we have to realize that I recognize that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And then, when it comes at a societal level the sort of the after company, so you have the team within within the team.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And then within the company, the different departments and branches and then finally in society in society as well, we all have different roles to play, and they are equally invaluable equally as important as the other.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Co workers, you know we saw how co workers were valuable and those identities, but essential and we cannot survive without them right, so I think.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And then, in the second piece into the sort of governance part of the the societal part is the part that we have an enabling environment policies laws.
Gurchaten Sandhu: In our programs that allow us allow us to celebrate this bring those intersections of US cost into the workplace or into society at large Sorry, I think.
Nadine Vogel: it's great, and I think too, when we talk about the individual piece what companies don't understand, and I think it's because as individuals we don't understand it.
Nadine Vogel: Is it we're also always evolving right we're in transition ourselves right, so we don't stay static how I thought of myself, you know, last week, might be very different because maybe.
Nadine Vogel: I had a different disability or my disability get you know got more severe this week, I had a car accident or I transitioned or whatever it could be so that's the other piece right so so Adrian I mean, can you speak to that a little bit.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Now absolutely I think this is where that journey of finding out who you are and being who you your authentic self is really key to understanding these multiple levels of intersection ality.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And for me and i'll use my personal story, it seems like coming out about something every so often about the different aspects of your life so whether that's.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Coming out as being open HIV positive in 2015 or coming out as openly gay back in back in the days in 2004 you know.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Your life evolves and your eyes and the workplaces balls to make it possible for you to be authentic self Now I know that I wasn't my authentic self.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And in many jumps early on in my career and actually not until really until 2017 was I absolutely open about my mental health my disabilities.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And my sexuality and that was because of her phobia within the workplace and lack of understanding within those different aspects.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Now i've since, in the last year changed my gender identity as well, which proves to show that, even at 43 things changing and your feelings and your authenticity changes with that.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And that's something i've done quite openly and easily in the environment i've been happened to happen to be able to work in.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: But i'm conscious i'm very lucky to work in a sphere of work where this this understanding intersection ality and multiple identities, is something that's quite.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: high on the agenda if I was in a other words faces that might not been so easy to do and so people around you why not being quite comfortable and seeing that journey develop right.
Nadine Vogel: Right and they say you know it's such a great environment I think it's the environment that serves as the biggest barrier right because.
Nadine Vogel: If the environment is conducive to understanding, you know is known as a difference right and then embracing it I don't know that we have quite the the fight within ourselves that we have.
Nadine Vogel: But i'm wondering it, you know we've spoken to companies many times and said well have you thought about having a joint event let's say between your LGBT Q group and your disability group and sometimes we get looked at Kenya for heads right like Why would we do that.
Nadine Vogel: Right and and you know we have a hot in the states, we have a very high propensity in the LGBT Q community to adopt children with disabilities as an example.
Nadine Vogel: And so, why are we coming together the issues of coming out in the workplace and someone with an invisible disability.
Nadine Vogel: Right, I mean you, you know, or maybe it's both of you have both at the same time, so i'm wondering.
Nadine Vogel: What men, if you had to come up with you know what you would say the approach the right approach to this would be because it's one thing saying we have this issue.
Nadine Vogel: To that we need to address it, but I think companies struggle with okay just tell me how if you give me the roadmap, we can do this and i'm not sure it's always the same in every company in every industry, but do you have some thoughts.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I think it goes back to your initial point and point that Adrian stressed as well that we are constantly evolving, I think this is great human fallacy that we're taught from the get go this is you and that's it done.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Right you're put into this box at the age of your your your gender at the age of the moment, you were born that was that you've done for the rest of your life and then.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And so many things, then sort of trigger from that point, you know.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And then also careers, etc, etc, so what type of person, you are and that that constant evolution.
Gurchaten Sandhu: isn't part of that and it's and it's a fallacy, because we have evolved we you know we've looked at the science, we are constantly evolving and changing even on a faith based perspective, you know you can look at.
Gurchaten Sandhu: You know even it teaches you how often you change I think there's certainly no will sell structures are constantly dying and evolving and that's what happens to our identities right, so if if it manifest in terms of physical it manifests in terms of our mental spiritual sides as well.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And I think that's where the companies have got to get this sort of neo liberal model of everything is fixed doesn't work anymore we've seen that it is a marketing.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Old chain production chains are fixed and rigid they don't work and the same working processes, do not want so we've got to be stuck we've got to get ready for this for the.
Gurchaten Sandhu: long haul because we're going to continue to change so anyone who's done sort of degrees in physics or engineering who like look, you know they keep on telling us you know when you're working on gender identity and gender expression, you know, this is just one point.
Gurchaten Sandhu: it's going to keep growing.
Gurchaten Sandhu: and evolving and we're not going to reach that point where we are finally found ourselves we're going to reach a point where we're going Okay, this is a good resting point let's go for it go for that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: So I think in terms of our organizations do we have to rethink our structures, how we live as an organism how we have companies live as an organism as well, and how they are able to be agile.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And it doesn't just apply to so you know when I was at the io we came up with this whole thing about the future of work and there's there's a whole concept of lifelong learning.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Lifelong learning just not only applied to the individual it applies to the organization and therefore a company must have an and a philosophy of learning that is put into its business processes that means you are not going to get it tick box perfect you're going to make it perfect.
Gurchaten Sandhu: But it's going to change again, and you have to get ready for that, and you have to oversee that kind of.
Gurchaten Sandhu: The thinking behind it, that allows you then to create the structures and processes that allow you to them deliver on that Thank you.
Nadine Vogel: i'm so glad that you said that isn't you've done a lot of training in your career see what you want to speak to that a little bit because I find that that this tick box mentality Okay, we did it.
Nadine Vogel: will move on to the next and in because the company is always evolving, it could be half the people are in that training aren't even there anymore right we have new folks and.
Nadine Vogel: So that's one, and then you know to to notice point about that we're evolving individually so Adrian talk to us you've done a lot of this so talk to us about the training.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: yeah I think this is where the the company sort of overarching policy around conscious inclusion which I like to call rather than training as such or unconscious bias, I think, words yeah.
Nadine Vogel: he's acting I hate that's her.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I think that's.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I think that's where this sort of.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: overarching training needs to be brought in, not just a one off tick box session that you do once a year, it needs to be a continuous improvement that I continuous learning.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Because we know that things are changing all the time, and one of the ways I think doing that, and this is something that.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: In a new company I can't you can't get in straight away, but you have to then work out what's the best way of doing it is having those learnings across these groups.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Rather than having siloed.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Employee resource groups, whatever you want to call them and certainly names for them, these days.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: You need to have that linkage between those different groups, perhaps as a global Council level, perhaps, where all those groups interact and learn from each other.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And then they take those showing the way and employ and take them out throughout the workforce, so they don't just remain learning within one group.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Or whether they're doing throughout the organization and that's the organizations maturity and learning about those new issues so taking one gender identity which is a topical issue it's a very.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: social media wise in the newspapers and the media, we know it is and that's evolving with people are changing.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: You know, causing that the.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: pups the the gender binary gender of 25 years ago is not the same today, and there are differences and there are different expressions over.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: How do we teach people who perhaps have come from different age groups have had different experiences.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Who are perhaps unaware of the changes in.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: younger people, particularly the younger generations are changing the way they identify far different through past people who are in their 50s 60s and 70s.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And therefore we need to bring that train together at two different levels at supporting those that have gone through the workplace and haven't been privy to some of that training.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And then bring new people who are just starting the workplace and making sure they're up to speed with the company's policies.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: The conscious inclusion training and the different ways of doing that I have to say, training shouldn't just be a PowerPoint presentation, there needs to be interactivity there needs to be you know talking to people learning.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: about life experiences.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I always find people's personal stories.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: hits far harder and you learn far more PowerPoint presentation about X, Y and zed.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: So you know that's why I always speak with you on these kind of topics and, indeed, and with other organizations with I always find that people are far more once they find out about someone's story their background or their lives during their lived experience.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Well, taking something out of a textbook.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Hearing someone's lift experience is always much more drums home.
Nadine Vogel: yeah.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Well, that wasn't me you didn't learn about more relevant.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: than.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Just a textbook idea, this could happen in a very theoretical world which actually generally doesn't do justice to actually those people who have got those different experiences.
Nadine Vogel: Right well and i'm so glad you said about conscious inclusion, you know this unconscious bias training.
Nadine Vogel: I, this is my personal opinion, I don't think I don't think it's really unconscious right I don't think people are trying to be mean.
Nadine Vogel: But it goes back to what you said lived experience so if they haven't had a certain experience and if you give them, you know given unconscious bias, training and I don't think i'm bias i'm not going to change my behavior.
Nadine Vogel: Is the end of the day, is not what it's.
Nadine Vogel: really about is, we have to change behavior and that's hard to do that that's not easy right.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: it's not easy but it's it's it's possible and achievable in the right environment that's why we come back to the company level that.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: You mentioned, because the company has to have the right, inclusive environment to allow people to learn and be able to take on new concepts and new ideas challenge and debate and discuss, but in a psychologically safe environment and that's, the key to company being able to do that.
Nadine Vogel: Well, and you know do it disability matters we talked about work for us workplace and marketplace.
Nadine Vogel: and companies, I don't care where in the world they are because you know you spoke a bit about you know global right which is also an issue with intersection ality right there was still countries.
Nadine Vogel: Where some of this is illegal, we can talk about it so, how do we, how do we intersect all of that, if we're a global global company, but I think there's also the politics right within the countries and the.
Nadine Vogel: You know just just how people, the Culture right how people act react to different topics, and I think this is important because when we talk about marketplace.
Nadine Vogel: And we're talking about intersection ality and embracing this from a customer standpoint.
Nadine Vogel: Right we're not we're not typically talking about that and thinking about that and companies will side with a certain political opinion.
Nadine Vogel: Right they'll take that on, and I think that that also influences their approach to some of this work so so now, I know that you've done a lot from that piece from a societal perspective so, what are your thoughts on that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Can you summarize that again.
Nadine Vogel: No, no.
Nadine Vogel: You know, we talked about the resource groups right we're talking and we're talking about these companies internally.
Nadine Vogel: And what they need to do and learning and development and things.
Nadine Vogel: like that, but what about the application externally, they have customers, especially those that have you know individual and I business customers.
Nadine Vogel: How are they approaching the intersection ality appropriately of their customers, what are their TV commercials look like what are their corporate you know big events, maybe that they have i'm finding that I don't see any of that externally.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I think it comes down to market consumer research Okay, you know a lot of this there's a starting piece right, so a lot of this is driven by market data and data trends if we're not being captured and let's even start a.
Gurchaten Sandhu: sexually I did markers such as identity markers based on logic for identity, such as sexual orientation somewhat easier to capture however markers around disability closing on disclosing or lot more complicated, so if you're not in the data already.
Gurchaten Sandhu: That and they using that information.
Gurchaten Sandhu: to design a market that's designed the services you're not there.
Gurchaten Sandhu: That you're completely invisible eyes that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Product or is not really being tailored for you, so I think and that sort of speaks to the bias point of the design process as well, what Adrian was speaking to us know how we train them, and I think there is a.
Gurchaten Sandhu: An a key element in the design process that is complete lacking when we when this that will ensure its application is done.
Gurchaten Sandhu: is done well and safely well and which is every single Community.
Gurchaten Sandhu: So therefore if you're you're going to be you're going to sort of get trapped into that loop where well we don't have any customers with disabilities well have you tried.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Or we don't you know will actually, then that is an issue they don't see it as a lot issue as an as an issue, so when it is in fact an issue, while, why are your customers.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Why do you not have customers with disabilities or customers from a certain.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Population saying what is, what are you missing or what are you not capturing and that comes down to, I think.
Gurchaten Sandhu: effort and hard work it's.
Gurchaten Sandhu: It is hard work.
Nadine Vogel: This hard well and it says.
Gurchaten Sandhu: We are the tune to being lazy were tuned to being quick and fast, especially in today's world, but we do not have time to think right.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And so I think that it's very, very important that we have that time to be creative to allow ourselves to think can be and step away from whatever we're doing into get a bigger and holistic picture.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And I think that's why he oh geez within companies can say Oh well, did you think about this, but I think it's also important er geez i'm not there to do your work or your job for you.
Nadine Vogel: Yes, i'm so glad you said that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: they're not being paid, this is a voluntary unless you pay and then one of the key things I always say pay your er G leaders and give them time off.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I think it's not fair, they are making profitable they're making a financial contribution more companies, I increasing its diversity, because we know that diversity has a business case around it and we're more.
Gurchaten Sandhu: profitable those companies are doing very, very well, are the ones that are more diverse thanks to the er geez so reward them, but so the same time, when you rewarding them in your day can be engaged in.
Gurchaten Sandhu: In those consultations to make sure that yes, this has been thought of.
Nadine Vogel: Right, so we have to reward them for the right actions.
Nadine Vogel: And reactions, so we have the science pay attention to the science, we have the data.
Nadine Vogel: That we have to pay attention to so and I know this is going to take more than two minutes, although we only have two minutes left is the politics.
Nadine Vogel: right because politics and I don't mean corporate politics, but the you know the bigger societal politics play a role, unfortunately, and that's where I was getting that companies also side with certain.
Nadine Vogel: political affiliations right doesn't matter what country ran and I think that that also has an impact on.
Nadine Vogel: Ignoring sometimes the science or the data right and so it's almost sounds like each thing is by it yep.
Nadine Vogel: Everything is on its own, so should we aligned with the science are we aligned with the data to realize that the politics, but I think even that has, we have to take an interest sectional approach.
Nadine Vogel: Right and look at this and I guess my last question for either for both of you, and last minute we have is, do you think politics should have a role in this.
I didn't.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I thought.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: I think I think companies can get to align with politics, and we have newspapers that have a particular side of that they support we have governments or a particular size and actually in the workplace, that shouldn't be appropriate.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Because actually the workplace should be an inclusive place.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: Where different people's opinions will will count, but people have to obey and be ready to be respected, be valued we celebrate different people acknowledging that people would have different views, but how they express those moves is absolutely critical to how inclusive workplaces.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: that's how I would deal with the politics, coming from a big corporate corporate organization, you have to realize it cook politics has to come out of it to be able to make that inclusive place.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: But at the same time, I think the data is really key because you can't do anything without the data.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And that's when the issues are the most companies are finding the challenge, in particular the global level is.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: White data to be able to then do the right actions, because then you can then recruit for the right talent, perhaps you're missing out with disabilities, having the two missing, because you don't know what your workforce is made up of.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: And when the key i'm working on is around data and getting that in with once you have that data, you can then.
AHYYRYLAINEN-TRETT: go forward and try and find solutions to some of those issues which you are being able to quantify adding the corporate governments well where people want starts and answers before you go forward with.
Nadine Vogel: Great great and, as I said, it's like a yin and Yang you know how do we balance this so nano we enter the Left mini we have what are you thinking about all this.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I think, Adrian hits a fair point in terms of is you know where is this the right, you know place to discuss it look.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Identity shouldn't be politicized.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Because it impacts.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Human Rights impacts legislations or more we've seen that already we've seen how politics have been how identities, have been politicized and we have seen a backward slip in right and human rights.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And we've seen that occur, and this is not just you know, and this is across the world, you know not just happening to us it's happening in Europe.
Gurchaten Sandhu: and other parts of the world as well and it's it's happened for migrants it's happened for refugees it's happened for people with disabilities, for women, for, and I think.
Gurchaten Sandhu: politicizing them is a dangerous issue.
Gurchaten Sandhu: We should all be promoting values and values and those values should be within the company yeah now we celebrate differences that we we strive for equality and equity, because everyone can have, and not the quality looks different for everyone.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And those values go beyond the workplace, they go and you know.
Gurchaten Sandhu: They also then go.
Gurchaten Sandhu: To the ballot as well, let me say that, because they are so it's not every single politics is not every single politician that's doing this, there are there are groups and movements and the quote talking about solidarity collective action.
Gurchaten Sandhu: which are important for our movements, so you know.
Gurchaten Sandhu: We see when we see an attack on one part it's going to it's an attack on all of us, so I think when it comes to.
Gurchaten Sandhu: it's not a straightforward answer is that because, yes, the identity should we call it politicized but the same time, we should make sure that we strive for those who are going to ensure the rights of all.
Gurchaten Sandhu: and ensure that differences are celebrated and it will work for quality so not an easy answer.
Nadine Vogel: No, no it's.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Not to this is, I think.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Is debate we don't know how to have debate anymore and social dialogue.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And you know, even when we say you know.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Is the workplace, the appropriate place for this.
Gurchaten Sandhu: I think there needs to be institutions or mechanisms put in place so that we can have dialogues in place that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: In our place where you know where we can learn to disagree, where we learn to come back and question we're not taught that anymore it's it's wrong to question it's wrong, and if you disagree with someone the conversations and i'm guilty of that.
Gurchaten Sandhu: You walk away from that, but I think coming back to the conversation and saying well so about what you said, I see your point there, but what about this.
Nadine Vogel: length as.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Well, and what I was hoping is.
Nadine Vogel: fed Diana sorry.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Yes, the ability to keep them coming to do that, and I think in today's world the politics of today, the way the politics of today functions, is that you won't do that anymore.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Cut so politics.
Gurchaten Sandhu: needs to if we are going to talk about politics or dialogue.
Gurchaten Sandhu: We needs to get back to a point where we were able to have that can't constructive dialogue we've gone back to the playground.
Nadine Vogel: yeah yeah yeah.
Gurchaten Sandhu: And it's not it's not where where our rights should be debated yeah.
Nadine Vogel: Now the playground is a dangerous place.
Nadine Vogel: It can be a very dangerous place where we, I mean this is a great conversation, and I was hoping and i'm so glad you use the word debate because.
Nadine Vogel: What I was hoping would come out of this is to open people's eyes to take this very conversation that we just had to their workplaces.
Nadine Vogel: and have these open dialogues debates within their own organization bring the different energy together the energy leaders and be you know go behind closed doors, create a safe space.
Nadine Vogel: And to have the conversation and to summarize you to consider the science consider the data embrace difference don't fear it embrace it.
Nadine Vogel: And you know, make clear decision or the politics going to play a role or not, if not fine, but if they are then we have to be honest.
Nadine Vogel: about what that means, and the implications of that to us as individuals like go back to how we started right to us as individuals.
Nadine Vogel: To our corporations and then you know when we leave work at the end of the day, we are we go back into society right we're out there in the grocery store is really auditoriums whatever so so how did.
Nadine Vogel: It all come together so oh my gosh the 30 minutes, I think, slow in like a nanosecond man.
Nadine Vogel: Adrian no, I want to thank you both so much, I think this is a fabulous start to the day, and I wish you well, and with that, I think that we're going to turn it back over to you.
Gurchaten Sandhu: Thank you.
Nadine Vogel: hey guys.
I Lopez: hey Dean thanks Adrian thanks Kurt it's, then we really do need to talk it out, so thank you for that session, and now we are going to bring to the stage and me to my my thing here.
I Lopez: i'm executive director user experience Center bentley university is Chris haas and joining him is senior consultant user experience at bentley university is Peter McNally.
I Lopez: And their session as practical inclusion usability testing for evaluating accessibility, Peter welcome to the stage I see you now i'm looking for Chris.
Peter McNALLY: I read.
I Lopez: How are you good morning.
Peter McNALLY: Good morning.
I Lopez: hi Chris everybody to Okay, so I.
I Lopez: can see you we've got audio, so I am going to leave this session in your capable hands.
Chris Hass: Thank you very much.
Welcome
Chris Hass: We are really pleased to be here it's a pleasure to be speaking with you i'm going to share some slides.
Chris Hass: And we are fully live here so we're interested in your thoughts as we go along, anything that we need to clarify or we're spending too much time on we're certainly happy to hear it, and we do have a Q amp a at the end so.
Chris Hass: it's pleasure to be speaking with you, I am the Executive Director of the user experience Center at bentley university, we are a ux researcher user experience research.
Chris Hass: agency that is set within bentley university and we do commercial user experience research and design for companies for the US Government.
Chris Hass: We are a 23 year old organization and we have two primary goals to support the evaluation and design of products that are usable and accessible.
Chris Hass: And to include graduate students from the universities human factors information design program in.
Chris Hass: Commercial work to augment their academic learning with practical experience, so our team is made up of senior ux consultants like Peter with decades of experience and graduate students seeking to improve the world product by product.
Chris Hass: And so we we work across industries, financial services, education automotive E commerce health and life sciences.
Chris Hass: Many others and accessing accessibility is a core competency, and so, both for for customers.
Chris Hass: Who might buy or use or subscribe to a product and also product users within companies business to business software, the software that we asked.
Chris Hass: Employees to use when they apply for employment for when they're doing their jobs and all the different aspects of of what employment entails, and the reason we're here today is one of the key lessons we've learned.
Chris Hass: Is that.
Chris Hass: There are accessibility designed for accessibility evaluating accessibility is about forethought not retrofitting I found this was I was doing some thinking around the stages of an employee lifecycle I found this great slide that tech targeted created the talks about the stages of.
Chris Hass: Employment oftentimes you're recruiting your onboarding you're developing your skills you're doing your job.
Chris Hass: you're you're trying to retain folks and sometimes folks will will leave your company and you get off boarded and.
Chris Hass: One of the things I liked about what tech target had to say here was at every stage there's software that's being used when we're recruiting there's talent acquisition software, it might be something that you've created, it might be something that.
Chris Hass: You subscribe to it might be something that a partner provides.
Chris Hass: But when we look across this employee lifecycle it's software software software software software and software takes many forums, these days, applications.
Chris Hass: Mobile Apps can be something you get on a tablet or smartphone or a desktop computer or a combination of those and so.
Chris Hass: it's it's really easy for companies to to lose sight of accessibility along the way, and so we wanted to to bring some suggestions to how you can hopefully easily in a relatively straightforward way.
Chris Hass: help make sure that every touch point your employees and potential employees have with your company can be maximally accessible, we know that accessibility is a moving target technology changes.
Chris Hass: tools change, and so we tend to rather than sort of strike we strive for perfection it's not always easy to do to achieve it, and so I tend to refer to.
Chris Hass: accessibility is something I target that we're trying to be maximally accessible and also usable so.
Chris Hass: accessibility for us means that more than is it technically possible to get through it.
Chris Hass: It really should mean does it use support equal and usable access, can you do all the things that you're supposed to do with the software, with the tool with the service, the product in the way that it's intended with a minimum of of stress and effort and so.
Chris Hass: Is the process for assistive technology users or persons with disabilities persons operating under limiting condition or conditions.
Chris Hass: Can they use the software, the system, the service with efficiency, efficacy and and satisfaction.
Chris Hass: And so often the components that make up the process as a whole, may not be fully accessible, you may be stuck with a service that you subscribe to for part of your process, you may feel pretty good that that all the tools that you use.
Chris Hass: or engage with and ask your employees to engage with are are accessible, or at least have been vetted by someone or not, and so.
Chris Hass: One of the the key tools that we use in our arsenal of ways to assess it and guarantee accessibility.
Chris Hass: Is usability testing, and so we know that the components that make up your process as a whole, might not be fully accessible and if you don't have a certainty that they are or not.
Chris Hass: If whether it's under your control or not are selected by persons who value the truisms that you do the question we're hoping to answer today is, what can you do and so.
Chris Hass: we're going to talk about usability testing has a technique it's a valuable technique for determining the accessibility and usability of products software services.
Chris Hass: What we mean when we say usability testing is a technique for evaluating a product or service by having representative users complete typical tasks with it.
Chris Hass: With the product so, for example, a given product is supposed to support a particular workflow or have key aspects of.
Chris Hass: use certain tasks here, you should be able to to execute by observing where users succeed or struggle we gain insights into their experiences their goals and how well software or services.
Chris Hass: support them and sometimes it's how well or how badly a product supports them, and so, for example, if you have a job application portal.
Chris Hass: And you haven't seen people using assistive technologies attempting to engage with that portal.
Chris Hass: Then you're missing vital data that will help you and your decision making will help you strengthen your position internally with a company with an organization with your outreach to be able to advocate for accessibility.
Chris Hass: So while when the users are assistive technology users, persons with disabilities, we gain valuable insights to the degree to which a product is accessible, so the goal of a usability test is to identify.
Chris Hass: Any accessibility and usability problems collect qualitative and quantitative data and determine the participants satisfaction with the product.
Chris Hass: And my mega amazing colleague pete is going to talk a little bit more about what that what that means, on a practical basis and and before I throw to him completely.
Chris Hass: You what you're seeing on screen here are on the left hand side, there is a.
Chris Hass: Testing room and so there's a participant here in the the darker shirt and she's using a website and.
Chris Hass: being observed by a facilitator, who is sitting next to her and asking her to perform key tasks and you'll see there's a one way mirror behind there's a.
Chris Hass: Observation room and in the right hand picture you'll see what's going on in the observation room is folks who are.
Chris Hass: Making sure that we're recording what's going on, we can broadcast what's going on to a client team that may or may not be on site, we can record sessions for what's happening and people will tell us a bit more about how usability tests work.
Peter McNALLY: Thank you, thank you, Chris alright so i'll just add a little more highlights to what Chris has already said.
Peter McNALLY: But yeah as Chris mentioned what usability testing is really all about and its core is observing people do a task.
Peter McNALLY: or in the case in the context of the workplace, it would be you know what's their their their job at work would have made that can be one area, it could be in the life cycle of employment, maybe it's using the.
Peter McNALLY: The the application process for applying for a job, for example, and typically we want to get a handful of users, so.
Peter McNALLY: Typically around eight to 10 people is a good number, because after that you start seeing the same number of.
Peter McNALLY: Issues over and over again and it's not really cost effective to bring in more folks, but you can even you know if you only can bring in five.
Peter McNALLY: or even less it's better than nothing so again the point here is bring in folks who are representative users and you want to get a variety of folks and you know we feel strongly that that should include.
Peter McNALLY: People with Disabilities folks who may or may not using technologies like screen readers voice recognition software other under the other devices other at and.
Peter McNALLY: We typically go through a structured approach, we will work with the stakeholders, or the client.
Peter McNALLY: The come up with a set of tasks or questions and we would ask the same questions every user so, then we could in our analysis we compare the data across all the participants.
Peter McNALLY: And you know the good thing here is that it really gives a ground truth for actual people trying to do a task or a workflow and you're not just guessing are assuming you get real field feedback from from real users.
Peter McNALLY: All right, Chris you can go next slide please.
Peter McNALLY: And here's a couple of common scenarios that you may want to think about so you know, in the context of of a business.
Peter McNALLY: As Chris said you're using software, in many cases right in different places, but you could break it into maybe you know, two different areas so.
Peter McNALLY: You could be using software that you're developing yourself on the second area, so this could be software that you're.
Peter McNALLY: Internally, building maybe you're working with consultants to build software designing and developing in house software our software going to use.
Peter McNALLY: Or you could be software that you're buying from a third party could be.
Peter McNALLY: web based could be in the cloud, for example, so you could be quick hearing that so in both these cases, it would be, it would be good to.
Peter McNALLY: Not usability testing so in the case of of new software you're designing you can start very early in the process and design process to make sure.
Peter McNALLY: Your concepts are our makes sense and then, as you go along in your development process at different phases either way with board usability testing at the checkpoint that can be very insightful in the procurement side, this could be a good way.
Peter McNALLY: And you're looking at different vendors potential solutions from different companies, you know you could maybe work with Dr J to.
Peter McNALLY: do some usability testing, so you know they say they're accessible, they say check all the boxes well let's really let's let's try a few tasks, what are the core.
Peter McNALLY: thing we want maybe it's applying for a job, maybe it's you know if it's an internal software, maybe it's a submitting a timesheet all things that are really important, so you know Can someone with a screen reader get through those without any issues.
Peter McNALLY: So those are a couple areas, think about if you haven't thought about you know why do you have do usability testing or why do it couple of.
Peter McNALLY: scenarios and think about okay so we'll move on the next slide so here's the side here it's a visual slide again, this is our our lab in.
Peter McNALLY: bentley University, which is located Massachusetts in the USA.
Peter McNALLY: So what we see here is for pictures in the upper left, we have our control arm, we would sit and observe a session, and you can see, we have a one way mirror there in the.
Peter McNALLY: Lower left this is another picture of our testing room in the upper upper right, what we see here is our.
Peter McNALLY: it's our it's our classroom but it's also can be used as a way for if you have stakeholders or client staff one observed, we can broadcast do a test on screens and also the the audio.
Peter McNALLY: So people can observe in real time, we can also broadcast your podcasts remotely we can watch the live stream and then on the law right is that a picture of our control room.
Peter McNALLY: All right, Chris we can encode the next slide all right, so we just get a little bit technical here with some of the different types of testing some of the different formats so.
Peter McNALLY: We do a couple of different things, you can think about what we typically call it in the industry formative and summative testing and what that really means is.
Peter McNALLY: These are fancy words, for you know you're testing early on, with some you know concepts or designed to see are you on the right track, which is very important, or you tested more would have finished product that kind of see how is it doing in the field with maybe.
Peter McNALLY: You ask you please to market, you know we talked a lot about our lab or interpret the College traditional testing now with with code we've we've switched to a lot of remote testing, which is still good, we can also test in the field, so we can maybe go out to.
Peter McNALLY: Someone working you know, in a different location, maybe in a retail setting we could we could observe people you know, in a supermarket or whether.
Peter McNALLY: A product, maybe it's a kiosk, for example, so we can test in many different places.
Peter McNALLY: I mentioned in personal remote we coven promoted became become very popular and that can be a way to broaden your reach you're not just limited to your local geography and then.
Peter McNALLY: Monitoring unmoderated for so really what we what we were shown you before and those pictures of our lab is typically moderated testing, we have a person.
Peter McNALLY: Sending one participant that we call the facilitator moderator and moderated testing, or we can do unmoderated which is typically done online.
Peter McNALLY: there's No one on the user is by themselves, using a website to give us feedback and then we can test on many different devices, whether it's mobile web software desktop or laptop.
Peter McNALLY: Right Chris we can move on.
Peter McNALLY: Alright, so now i'm just going to show you a typical timeline that we use that our our our Center but this can vary based on your requirements, the scope of the project so roughly four or five weeks.
Peter McNALLY: So we would have a kickoff meeting work with you to understand your needs a plan schedule know we would start recruiting folks, and this is really finding who you want to reach out to now, you can do this internally.
Peter McNALLY: or bring in folks.
Peter McNALLY: Ways you can also work with outside vendors or work with your customers.
Peter McNALLY: That trick which typically takes about two weeks, and we would do our testing typically have he said.
Peter McNALLY: No 10 maybe maybe a little more usually an hour to hour, you would want to go more than that because it does get tiring for the for the participant after that.
Peter McNALLY: And then, a week after that, to look at the data, right up, I recommend finding the recommendations and provider so i'm just typical scenario.
Peter McNALLY: If we are looking at different groups of people, maybe different.
Chris Hass: cohorts may increase number.
Peter McNALLY: 68 per you know different workflow, for example, but typically you know eight to 10 is a good number of investments to bring in to get kind of a gut check, so to speak, on where are we with our accessibility and usability all right.
Peter McNALLY: And then.
Peter McNALLY: This is the slide here, I want to talk about is.
Peter McNALLY: important in this context of discipline and manners I know we've touched on this a little bit obviously you want to bring in folks have.
Peter McNALLY: A good mix I good variety of folks i'm with different disabilities both.
Peter McNALLY: visible and hidden and you may want to work, you know we are genes, if you have those set up in your company already there'll be a great place to to get folks and.
Peter McNALLY: You know, all those people are very vested in the outcome, and they were very willing to give you input, but you know you can also work with outside vendors so, for example in the UK i'm fine with the R IB.
Peter McNALLY: The wrong national blind I know there's similar organizations or countries and there's other groups for disability types and in most countries or even locally.
Peter McNALLY: And then, if you're doing you know with remote testing that's a great tool for folks who maybe can't get to the location.
Peter McNALLY: And you know you can you can reach out to anywhere people anywhere on your country, or even globally, for example, but one thing I would say is.
Peter McNALLY: You know if you're using zoom or our tool like Microsoft teams, you want to test it out, make sure you know how it works, how you can share screens, especially.
Peter McNALLY: You may even want to have a little DEMO beforehand with the with the participant, to make sure they understand how to share screen things like that.
Peter McNALLY: If you are doing in person, testing, make sure that you go over logistics, one important thing is to make sure folks bring their own assistive technology.
Peter McNALLY: Make sure that whatever they have a laptop with jaws or whatever the screener is make sure that they bring that any other sector accessory they may need, and then you know if you are.
Peter McNALLY: Having people come to you, maybe consider paying for the reputation, you know that's a taxi uber lyft or if it's you know, public transport, paying for that.
Peter McNALLY: So again, a couple of things to think about Chris do you have any thoughts on that no I didn't include you in earlier any thoughts any either usability testing.
Peter McNALLY: The techniques or anything that we talked about here.
Chris Hass: Sure we're happy to some questions have come in and we'll make sure to address those and happy to have more questions, but the one thing I would say.
Chris Hass: You know the reason we asked people to bring their own assistive technology is often because those are highly customized tools.
Chris Hass: And so we can set up a screen reader in our office, but even if it's the same kind that they you know same same software that they would use.
Chris Hass: it's often when someone's using it on a daily basis it's often very customized to their use and so.
Chris Hass: Either you provide time for them to customize yours to their specifications or it's often easier to just meet people where they live, so to speak, so if they can bring.
Chris Hass: Their system tools with them great maybe we have to go out and see their house or can meet to you know, wherever their their workplace.
Chris Hass: and work with them, you know there, and so what we were with pizza Expo as well it's nice to have a formal usability lab where you can sort of lack out the world and focus on what you want to focus on but but oftentimes a real world context is quite important, so.
Chris Hass: One to.
Chris Hass: Two one of the questions that came in one of the questions that was asked in the chat was if we do this type of testing does it mean we no longer need to have the typical accessibility testing done.
Chris Hass: And so my my question, there is it all depends on what you mean by a typical accessibility test.
Chris Hass: oftentimes if you're doing a blanket assessment of is our website accessible is our mobile APP accessible.
Chris Hass: There are automated tools that you can sort of set loose on your on your website and it will come back and it will tell you where you're not using all tags or where you're being inconsistent formatting.
Chris Hass: And those are helpful tools, but there's a difference between there's a very significant difference between.
Chris Hass: Technical accessibility, meaning, yes, you could buy your way through this and accomplish your goals and true usability where it's as easy to use it as it is for everyone else it's easy to be so that.
Chris Hass: Even even if it's a highly accessible product, it can still be a very unusable product, and so the nice thing about this technique is to catches both, and so, in recent years.
Chris Hass: In on the regulatory side, there have been significant concessions made to say.
Chris Hass: automated testing is not enough, you need to involve humans in the process and usability testing is one of those methods and one of the best for involving actual people and not just relying on.
Chris Hass: machines are good at locating holes in code, but not so good at figuring out well, this would actually be difficult to use and just a quick example of that.
Chris Hass: we've done testing of amazon.com and their homepage and probably six years ago, we did a study, where, if you if you were navigating the Amazon homepage using a screen reader.
Chris Hass: And really paying attention to everything that was on the homepage it would take you about 88 minutes to scan the whole page and so.
Chris Hass: It is technically possible, but it is functionally not as usable as you would hope to make it, and so we can do better than that so not to pick on Amazon.
Chris Hass: want to pick on Amazon a little bit they've since simplified their processes improve their navigational support.
Chris Hass: Particularly for assistive technology users using keyboard shortcuts, so there are lots of ways to take what is technic what an automated service will tell you is technically appropriate, but really evaluated for is it is it functionally useful so.
Chris Hass: This is, I think of accessibility as a component of usability and so this is a way to get at both in one technique.
Chris Hass: And so, of course, the best technique is the one that gives you the broadest amount of information that helps you to make decisions helps you to to convince folks.
Chris Hass: One of the things I love about this technique is if pete's conducting individual usability test sessions, you know, an hour with with.
Chris Hass: participants and over the course of a couple of days, he works with 12 or 15 people from one or two key demographics that represent our clients user base.
Chris Hass: Then that's an observable process, the whole team can come together.
Chris Hass: from different you know, marketing and business and design and development, they can all see what's going on, and they can see where people are struggling or succeeding.
Chris Hass: And that builds this P mentioned earlier and objective truth.
Chris Hass: That you can all point to, and so you start to think Oh, you know we've been very smart team that's doing very good work, but they're making a lot of assumptions so seeing people.
Chris Hass: Actually struggle or succeed with given aspects of the of the process that has a tremendous.
Chris Hass: value, both for the tactical nature of what you're you're working with but also creating these objective observations, where.
Chris Hass: You could make decisions that we do we want software a or software be or do we want to sign on with this online group if we have an online.
Chris Hass: survey tool which is the most accessible, which is the most useful.
Chris Hass: This is a great way to get to that so you get tactical level insights of you know, is the screen widget.
Chris Hass: Appropriately accessible is appropriately usable and you also get Meta level insights like whether the software you're designing matches the way users are expecting to think about the content and the workflow of the work that you're doing so well.
Chris Hass: So being able to identify accessibility challenges and successes in a clear repeatable unassailable way.
Chris Hass: is incredibly valuable if we come up with a moderators guide and a recruiting screener that are unbiased and they're fair and they represent the people that are your core audiences the tasks they're expected to do with the various software.
Chris Hass: Then it gets hard to dispute, you know what you're seeing, and so it gives you that.
Chris Hass: ammunition to turn around and say Okay, we really need to knuckle down and fix this we know what's working so it's not accidentally change now, and so, of course, so the return on investment is is really incredible it's a fantastic.
Chris Hass: There was another question that came in that said, Mr McNally mentioned that this can be done on mobile.
Chris Hass: So how do we know what site or sites, this could be done with we have so many sites and so many countries, I mean ideally you're doing this with.
Chris Hass: Either the primary ones that are that are out there, the ones, have the most to us, ideally, all of them, but if you're trying to understand.
Chris Hass: How are things culturally different How are things different for people with different tools, I would say the the best courses to pick one learn something, and very often.
Chris Hass: When you're if you pick a site you evaluate it you let your team and other teams observe that process, you make changes, you see the value of the changes that you've made because you're certain about what needs to be altered and allows you to innovate.
Chris Hass: Then it gives you that that internal home to roll into the next one, and the next one, or to learn lessons that can be applied universally.
Chris Hass: We were we were being you know really inconsistent in the way that we set up these particular features let's straighten that out, and so finding ways that.
Chris Hass: I think we all know that when you're evaluating for accessibility, a rising tide lifts all boats that the things you fix make.
Chris Hass: Your site more than make your site more accessible, will make it more consistent, will make it more usable will make it clear, will make it easier for you to support it because there's consistency across sites.
Chris Hass: And so you know if you have a ton of sites in different countries, I would try and figure out, you know, is it frequency urgency the largest number of users, where, can you start to make a difference.
Chris Hass: And one of the most most amazing things about this technique, we see it over and over with clients is once you get that view into how people are actually doing things if it's set up well recruited well moderated well.
Chris Hass: Then you're going to get excited about it, and what you do want to do more, the clarity, it brings is very, very nice.
Chris Hass: pete that's a lot of me talking, one of the other questions that came in was who in our company should be leading this.
Chris Hass: i'm assuming it, but I lead talent acquisition and worry that we have barriers to candidates with disabilities Is this something my team can do, where do we always have to have it do.
Chris Hass: That when you want to tackle or.
Peter McNALLY: I can, I can go with that, I think you know I think it's a collaborative effort.
Peter McNALLY: You know across the company um I would say, you know i'm you know it is a broad term, but if you have a ux or user experience team I would definitely talk to them.
Peter McNALLY: Most companies now have some form of what you know user experience might be called customer experience.
Peter McNALLY: User experience research I would see if they have that group, and then you know work with them early just kind of see what they do, and you know, and it may be part of it, but definitely you know have conversations early on and see where that goes.
Peter McNALLY: and
Chris Hass: And I would add to that that I don't see this as a.
Chris Hass: Primarily it related function often times as pete says it's a different group that's leading this because it, it might be the it folks who are receiving the information.
Chris Hass: But if it starts there that's terrific, but this is a technique, with a pretty low barrier for entry.
Chris Hass: You know, it can it's like anything it's an art to do it really well takes practice but do something I want to start.
Chris Hass: There, there are lots of good books and he Google search of how to do a usability tests will get you a ton of information online good advice.
Chris Hass: And it is something that you know anybody with with the right intentions and can can do and ideally do well.
Chris Hass: In when in doubt, we always recommend consultants, you know, there are folks out there to do this professionally and so, particularly instances where.
Chris Hass: If you've got medical devices or you've got you know lives on the line or or corporate profits or in you know, in the balance or.
Chris Hass: Your your ability to to onboard bring in the right people for the right job, irrespective of abilities or disabilities is is this is, this is a great way to to build that consensus.
Chris Hass: To build that.
Chris Hass: Energy and to help accelerate those voices, I think we may be out of time there we are.
Chris Hass: No problem we'd be thrilled to hear from you we're happy to take the conversation on the road and we realize this is a big topic for half an hour so.
yeah.
Nadine Vogel: I had you guys are about three hours for our audience, I just wanted to say that you know springboard and bentley been working together on this for quite a number of years.
Nadine Vogel: And, no matter where in the world, you are located, the the the information that pete and Chris have shared is the same.
Nadine Vogel: So don't think that Oh, I have you know only in the US are here, it is the same, and you know if you have more questions just submit them if you want to have a separate conversation with Chris and peaches, let us know we can arrange for that as well, so guys Thank you so much.
Peter McNALLY: Thank you.
pleasure.
I Lopez: Thanks me Dean thanks Chris thanks pete great session always very informational really appreciate it okay fine so now we're going into our.
I Lopez: Next session.
I Lopez: And to the stage we're bringing up our marketplace session our moderator flow deanna not that Angela.
I Lopez: She is sales senior manager for birla group and joining her is associate Professor special education office you're in cristiana university that.
I Lopez: group at the aroma is Professor origin glucose amatory and the co founder and chief technical chief technical officer for envision is karthik economy.
I Lopez: And chief executive officer and general manager for the alarm and their punter molly and her disability management Vice President of UniCredit Bank Austria, and we welcome back to the stage again is Christian genco nice to have you today, thank you.
Christian Schinko: Thank you for having me.
I Lopez: Can I make sure I hear everyone, just a quick audio check.
Floriana Notarangelo: Good morning, good morning good morning everyone.
I Lopez: Thank you, I have you Jen Luca can we.
Gianluca Amatori: morning.
I Lopez: Good morning aromatics and karthik.
Karthik Kannan: hey hi good morning.
I Lopez: Beautiful OK, for the amateur yours.
Floriana Notarangelo: Yvette I just need one thing from you, before we start.
Floriana Notarangelo: Unfortunately unwrapping family had an unexpected events I just came to my notice and Marco belt Rami who is his HR Director will step in in the panel to replace him so if you can add him as a participant if you can see him in the participant list.
I Lopez: at school, take a look for him.
Floriana Notarangelo: Okay, great Thank you very much.
I Lopez: ariana I don't see how.
Floriana Notarangelo: Do you see Martha guarantee.
I Lopez: I do.
Okay.
Floriana Notarangelo: She works with him so maybe they're connected together.
I Lopez: Okay, let me bring her on.
Floriana Notarangelo: i'm not i'm not sure, but we'll ask her.
Floriana Notarangelo: Martha can you hear us.
I Lopez: I think she just moved over, let me ask her to unmute so we can hear her.
I Lopez: mother.
gargantini_m: Hello.
This is my.
Floriana Notarangelo: There we go hi there we go.
I Lopez: Why don't you turn on your video.
gargantini_m: Okay, one second.
gargantini_m: Okay yeah.
I Lopez: We go.
gargantini_m: Sorry, the unexpected event and the problem comic show.
Floriana Notarangelo: It totally totally fine totally Okay, thank you for stepping in.
Floriana Notarangelo: present the Laura.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you, thank you for stepping in at the last at the last minute, so welcome everyone, my name is floreana neither Angela as even mentioned, I work for beta group.
Floriana Notarangelo: it's been 10 years now since 2019 i'm the head of sales in the south of Italy and i'm also a board member for the dni for the global dni board.
Floriana Notarangelo: Representing Italy for burial group since 2020 and looking after this year, in particular, the inclusion of people with disabilities so i'm thrilled and very honored.
Floriana Notarangelo: to moderate the panel today, where we will focus on the marketplace and which means, how do we how we are as organizations, make sure we.
Floriana Notarangelo: Give accessibility to consumers with disabilities to our products and services so together with us, we have Christians and look at karthik and makeover tammy.
Floriana Notarangelo: Welcome again and we will start with some questions.
Floriana Notarangelo: For the panelists to help to have them explain how their organization, since they are award winners so role models in the industry, how they made accessible their products and services, but before we start would like to have a quick round table for everyone to introduce themselves quickly.
Floriana Notarangelo: And we will start with karthik.
Floriana Notarangelo: Good morning.
Karthik Kannan: Good morning hi everybody Thank you so much for having me here it's an absolute pleasure to be amongst such an interesting group of folks working to improve accessibility.
Karthik Kannan: So, my name is karthik I am one of the founders of envision.
Karthik Kannan: envision is a is a company that builds tools that helps people with a visual impairment, so they can live more independently using computer vision.
Karthik Kannan: And envision basically builds primarily our product is the envision glasses, which is a pair of smart glasses, that a visually impaired person can wear and it can help them read text in over 60 different languages.
Karthik Kannan: From pretty much any printed surface can help them recognize faces of their friends or family members, help them recognize their personal belongings.
Karthik Kannan: And even make video calls directly from the glasses to a friend or a family member, so the glasses basically.
Karthik Kannan: You know, help people across the visual impairment spectrum, so there are people with low vision, who use the glasses, and then there are also people who are entirely blind as well.
Karthik Kannan: who use the glasses, so there are features within the glasses that help them to help people across the visual impairment spectrum to be able to use the glasses.
Karthik Kannan: So, with the glasses, a visually impaired person can basically wear them the entire day they get about five to eight hours of battery life and it's.
Karthik Kannan: designed in such a way that it can be used at the workplace as well, because a lot of features of the envision glasses work completely offline, for example.
Karthik Kannan: Being able to read text works completely offline so you can read text in over 40 different languages.
Karthik Kannan: without needing an Internet connection, which means that you know when you take a picture of something or when you look at a piece of text it's not being necessarily sent to a server so that makes it very privacy.
Karthik Kannan: friendly in that way, as well, and the glasses are also able to read handwritten text, so this is also really useful for people who are you know.
Karthik Kannan: Either students or people who are working, when they want to either north or when they want to be portraits what's written in the blackboard they can use the glasses to basically go ahead and read that.
Karthik Kannan: And if at any point in time, you know, and they will also be there will always be instances where.
Karthik Kannan: The Ai doesn't really match up with the situation, they can always call a friend or a family member directly from the glasses to.
Karthik Kannan: To their device right, so that what happens is when they make a video call from the glasses, the friends or family members, you know basically get a notification on their phone they open the notification and they see.
Karthik Kannan: You know all the legacy, a first person perspective of the person wearing the glasses so so they see the video from the camera feed and hear the audio from the person.
Karthik Kannan: wearing the glasses as well, so the glasses are are what we primarily focus on, we also have the envision APP the envision APP offers some similar features, to the glasses.
Karthik Kannan: And is it is a free smartphone APP that's available for people across the world if they want to be able to read the PDF, for example, or if they want to read.
Karthik Kannan: You know text, they can also use the envision APP to be able to do that so that's a little bit about me.
Karthik Kannan: You know we've been around for the past five years and we've our primary focus is on building tools for people with a visual impairment using Ai and we're super super excited for the future.
Floriana Notarangelo: amazing wow i'm really looking forward to you know hear more about that, and how you came.
Floriana Notarangelo: How, you came up and to with these ideas and what were the challenges you overcame to develop this kind of product, but who will go into that a little bit later i'm going to leave the floor to Marco belt Rami from the Lara for an introduction.
Floriana Notarangelo: hi Michael.
gargantini_m: hi hi Oh, thank you for being here, I tried to replace Mr for primary.
gargantini_m: As well as I can.
gargantini_m: Market with Rami the HR director of the law.
gargantini_m: The large eyes company that since 1972 works in the model sport market and in the.
gargantini_m: high performance car market with consultancy with the main most important oem.
gargantini_m: That that works in the in this market for sure not that the first product that you.
gargantini_m: Think about when you take the.
gargantini_m: Diversity and inclusion and the product that you think that the people with disability can.
gargantini_m: use it for sure we change something during our history and we had a.
gargantini_m: Very important opportunity to work with Alex van RD in the past, and you know, he may is a.
gargantini_m: was a very important.
gargantini_m: racing car driver with the.
gargantini_m: With the.
gargantini_m: pop.
gargantini_m: festival participation in F1 and winning the indycar so.
gargantini_m: He knows the ladder in the first part of him career before he he he lose him.
gargantini_m: In the leg and half their data, you want to continue to perform, and he want to drive the same car.
gargantini_m: And so we need to do something and change something in that in the usability of the car, so he came straight to to ask that the disease possible, let me say, and after that start with a in a very important collaboration that with a lot in a new market.
gargantini_m: So we we work with him a lot and during the last here, so we do something very specific with him in.
gargantini_m: design a tailor made the hand biker for him gold may Allah in.
gargantini_m: In London and in Rio.
gargantini_m: Olympic Games.
gargantini_m: So we put the Alexander Dean, how are we done it, for example on board on that on that in.
gargantini_m: And bike and after that, we think that we want to do something for all the people that they want to use and biker and do something that is a.
gargantini_m: Very high level and biker with accessibility for more people than that that was before before, this is a this product.
gargantini_m: So we have a very big opportunity i'm sorry I don't know if I want to.
gargantini_m: If I were to go deeper in this project, or maybe later.
Floriana Notarangelo: When we go into details, we will will go into details will ask.
Floriana Notarangelo: questions.
Floriana Notarangelo: On the developer okay products of the on the on the design process, so you will have the opportunity to go into details, just one question quick question for you, so the database is named after Alexander the correct.
gargantini_m: Yes, correct we before we have this partnership with him and I with.
gargantini_m: With the him.
gargantini_m: No profit company that the Co op to track and this name probably objectivity and.
gargantini_m: We work.
gargantini_m: With them and after that a lot of people can now use our bike and have an important result that with the biker because is a high performance and bike obviously.
gargantini_m: Yesterday, with some feature, we can make that product.
gargantini_m: useful for a lot of people so also for a.
gargantini_m: Broad broad biker, let me say, and not not.
Floriana Notarangelo: For for the people in our audience who don't know Alexander the, just in case is an incredible athlete as mark mentioned, he was a.
Floriana Notarangelo: car driver car race driver and he lost his legs and became a Paralympic champion is an incredible athlete and an inspiration, a role model to me personally and too many people.
Floriana Notarangelo: So I encourage everyone to look out for his bio and YouTube videos of Alexander rv because he's such an amazing athlete.
Floriana Notarangelo: And thank you, Michael for this introduction so we're going to move from products designed for people with disabilities consumers with disabilities or inspired by people with disabilities and we're gonna move to services was Christian.
Yes.
Christian Schinko: Thank you hi, thank you for having me again on this great conference yesterday I had the opportunity to.
Christian Schinko: speak in the framework of work workforce kitchen sink or head of disability.
Christian Schinko: Disability team was founded 10 years ago in Austria to help employees with disabilities, but also to provide services and.
Christian Schinko: Great services and products for consumers and customers with disabilities So who is bank Australia, Austria is one of today's leading financial institutions.
Christian Schinko: In Austria and true at continental Europe, also in the areas of accessibility and inclusion, so we are very proud of our experience or a long experience with many hurdles and many, many.
Christian Schinko: yeah problems but also quite a lot of innovations which I want to share today with David you big Austria is also part of the unit great group with 15 million.
Christian Schinko: customers with earth and yeah i'm happy to be here i'm quite passionate about this topic and happy to share and learn from our panel, thank you.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you, Christian and, last but not least, Gianluca Professor amatory from university of Rome.
Gianluca Amatori: morning good morning everybody i'm truly honored to be with you in the session.
Gianluca Amatori: My name is john Luke amatory and I am an associate professor of the tactics and special education at the European University of Rome.
Gianluca Amatori: And my scientific activity idea with disabilities and scholastic and social inclusion, the main topics are the teacher training.
Gianluca Amatori: family relationships with a Member with disability and job inclusion and inclusion management.
Gianluca Amatori: and its European University of Rome i'm the founder and manager of the inclusion office and I am responsible for the word for all project, which I will certainly have the opportunity to talk about later, but which aims to build an accessible and fully inclusive university environment.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you, De Luca and thank you to everyone for your introductions so we're going to go a little bit into details on each of your projects product designs services so that we understand better from you.
Floriana Notarangelo: How how to make sure we increase accessibility to people with disabilities to consumers with disabilities or to caregivers to people with disabilities in our marketplaces So my first question to each of you regards the.
Floriana Notarangelo: The origin of your projects, how did you reach the moment where you decided to invest and.
Floriana Notarangelo: To get involved and to commit to design products and services for people with disabilities for consumers with disabilities, what is your rationale behind what was the trigger.
Floriana Notarangelo: We can start with that Gianluca.
Gianluca Amatori: Yes, thank you.
Gianluca Amatori: where's my university the European University of Rome recognizes the centrality of the person and values, the richness of diversity, and for this reason.
Gianluca Amatori: It offers its students are highly inclusive environment able to support students with disabilities.
Gianluca Amatori: With specific learning disabilities or in situations of particular vulnerability even temporary from the moment of enrollment and from the entire duration of the course of study and job placement.
Gianluca Amatori: The University school is to identify and and plan, together with the student all the support necessary to effectively be carry out their teaching activities and successfully reached the end of the training course.
Gianluca Amatori: The academic community promotes inclusive culture by offering diversified and personalized supports coordinated by the inclusion office and for us, it is essential to.
Gianluca Amatori: guarantee the right to study and the possibility of achieving maximum educational success.
Floriana Notarangelo: very clear very good, thank you, the look at Christian.
Floriana Notarangelo: Yes, why.
Floriana Notarangelo: Why is it important, in your.
Floriana Notarangelo: Market.
Floriana Notarangelo: Why is it important in the marketplace you operates.
Christian Schinko: Yes, let me answer on a meter meter perspective.
Christian Schinko: Our.
Christian Schinko: goal is to a visionary goal is to build an inclusive society that's a huge where everyone can participate, disabled people, disadvantaged people or people.
Christian Schinko: We see financial inclusion and financial industry is a very crucial industry as a key to the prosperity of society.
Christian Schinko: that's our framework, and therefore we strive to promote economic participation and that's crucial by facilitating access to financial access services so it's from the one hand it's a.
Christian Schinko: matter of question on the other hand, it's 15% of our population yeah it concerns employees, as well as customers and it's a two large group for us to make like yeah it's also naturally a matter of.
Christian Schinko: of social dimension and then responsibility, but also a business perspective and the business case now so as a company as a financial companies, we can let me correct it and I will provide some some figures afterwards okay topic, but but.
Karthik Kannan: it's it's.
Christian Schinko: A crucial and it's yeah.
Christian Schinko: perspective.
Floriana Notarangelo: You say.
Christian Schinko: 20% 15 to 20% we were talking about 1.4 1.7 million people in Austria were affected by any disability and this number will grow in the future.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you, thank you, Christian very, very clear.
Floriana Notarangelo: karthik so we moved back to products.
Floriana Notarangelo: yeah so what were what were like the rational in with what were what was driving you in the designing products for visually impaired consumers.
Karthik Kannan: Sure, so actually you know when I went a lot of people ask me this thing they assume that I do have people in my life, who are visually impaired.
Karthik Kannan: or my friends circle or visually impaired that kind of inspired me to or inspired us to start envision.
Karthik Kannan: But if you know me or my co founder we don't have people in our lives are visually impaired so just like most people.
Karthik Kannan: Outside this conference, we had no awareness about the kind of lives and the limitations that people with disabilities face I wasn't even aware of the term accessibility, before we started envision but it all changed in 2016.
Karthik Kannan: When I had gone to a blind school in India, you know it was basically a school that was run by a friend of mine friend's mother's so she invited me and my co founder.
Karthik Kannan: To give a talk there to kids who are leaving high school right and the topic of the conversation was you know what do designers do, what do developers software developers and programmers do or researchers do.
Karthik Kannan: Right and kind of encourage you know the kids to to go and pick up these disciplines as well right and I remember the gist of the topic of just have the conversation or the speech.
Karthik Kannan: To the kids was you know, a designer or developer is just someone who solves a problem right I wake up every day in the morning and I solve problems for a living.
Karthik Kannan: And I asked the kids after the call after the inner talk I don't what kind of problems would they like to solve when they grew up or when they left the school so that's when you know it was it was.
Karthik Kannan: Probably the most eye opening.
Karthik Kannan: part of my life until that point where a lot of kids were you know, giving me basic things like they want to read a book more independently, they wanted to go out more independently, they wanted to live independently and you know the the.
Karthik Kannan: Whole topic of the whole.
gargantini_m: Talk was only about it.
gargantini_m: was only supposed to be about.
Karthik Kannan: 30 minutes, but then I ended up staying for two hours you know, in the school just hearing these people talking to them about what their what their aspirations and dreams were and everything came down to the word independence.
Karthik Kannan: Right and so that was sort of the starting point where.
gargantini_m: You know, I was any researcher and my friend, was a designer and we were thinking about like.
Karthik Kannan: Okay, we should be able to go ahead and solve these problems or I thought, these problems would be fairly solved for people with disabilities.
Karthik Kannan: Because I could see a lot of advances in Ai that were happening.
Karthik Kannan: But it was very you know strange to see that none of those advances, for example, and Ai was starting to get better at recognizing faces than humans, for the first time in 2015.
Karthik Kannan: He was getting better at reading things then then humans have the first time in 2016 2017 so there was so much advanced happening and we thought Okay, why not take all the advances in Ai.
Karthik Kannan: And why not go ahead and blend it with really good accessible design and offer that as a service Oh, it was not even.
Karthik Kannan: In the very beginning it was not even like a service right was just a project right, we were just doing our master's thesis and it was just a project, it was supposed to only be a project.
Karthik Kannan: But towards the end of the project, when we built a very first prototype of the envision APP on a smartphone it wasn't a great prototype it was a very ugly prototype it had just two buttons in there, and you know it used to crash often but.
Karthik Kannan: You know, after six months later, about 800 people in Europe actually had the beta version of our prototype running on their phones.
Karthik Kannan: And they were using it, like every single day and, at the end of the thesis you know, we ran out of money, because you know we were just students who didn't have money at that time, so we just wanted to shut down the project.
Karthik Kannan: Because we thought yeah you know I mean we're done with the thesis it was such a success and we will we were going to go and write a lot about this project in the future.
Karthik Kannan: But I remember still on a Friday evening going ahead and sending the email that we're shutting down the project and the next morning.
Karthik Kannan: waking up to see 600 700 people write to me, you know over email saying that.
Karthik Kannan: This is this is such an interesting tool it's such an amazing tool, a bit you know, even though it has all the bugs in the world, even though it was crashing often and it looked very you know.
Karthik Kannan: It didn't it wasn't a very, very done product they still wanted to be able to pay for it to keep the project alive right so that's when we knew.
Karthik Kannan: We wanted to do this, and they were like if you really want to build this technology and bring it to as many people as possible, you should do this as a full time company and that's how envision.
Karthik Kannan: actually started right, so it was just the fact that the 600 700 people polled took the time out to type out an email and say keep this thing alive, is where you know we are here, five years later.
Karthik Kannan: And the main thesis or main idea behind envision is.
Karthik Kannan: Two things right, one is we realize that the primary reason why people with a disability, people with a visual impairment live a dependent life is because they don't have access.
Karthik Kannan: To the visual information that's in front of them right or that's around them.
Karthik Kannan: And the second thing is you can't expect the world to make all types of visual information accessible like I cannot walk around with a bail display on my head or I cannot make like every single piece of you know.
Karthik Kannan: Like product or every single thing I use in my life accessible right, so we needed to build a tool.
Karthik Kannan: That will help a person with a visual impairment access the world on its own terms, without expecting the world to change.
Karthik Kannan: And that tool was artificial intelligence right that tool was computer vision and today we have you know all like we have more than like 30 different Ai models that run within the envision classes.
Karthik Kannan: You know that help people with different types of tasks and.
Karthik Kannan: You know that's you know that number is only going to increase as as as Ai becomes more powerful Leonard you know continues to keep doing more and more things that humans can do, and that was sort of the inspiration or the starting point for envision as a company yeah.
Floriana Notarangelo: that's such an inspiring story karthik and and and, yes, because technology will continue to grow, then the sky's the limit of the possibilities, you can.
Floriana Notarangelo: You can you can bring into the services and the products to make accessible.
Floriana Notarangelo: To make to make them more accessible to visually impaired people or in general, consumers with disabilities, I find it very interesting what.
Floriana Notarangelo: The relation you explain between design, so the skills, you are, you have as a designer that you in your your job is to solve problems through design.
Floriana Notarangelo: To bring more accessibility to people with disabilities, but the end objective is independence, so there is design that brings you accessibility, that brings independence to people I think that's absolutely.
Floriana Notarangelo: it's not only very clear but it's very accessible to everyone to understand and very replicable actually to many other industries like we should be driven by the final objective, which is independence and which is.
Floriana Notarangelo: Very common to all your stories actually.
Floriana Notarangelo: Gianluca as sorry Marco you you explained already what inspired you to design the database so it's mainly it's an rv who was already a driver in the law, it was already driving the latter automobile.
Floriana Notarangelo: racing cars.
Floriana Notarangelo: So, since we know already your inspiration, can you share more the drivers for success in your marketplace, because you started with the data bike, for example, and then you made you made those accessible to pro bikers.
gargantini_m: And to yes.
Floriana Notarangelo: Like the everyday biker can you explain more about that.
gargantini_m: Yes.
gargantini_m: Obviously.
gargantini_m: We we believe in inclusion as a as a feature of our product and founding pillow in our culture and a driver of obviously our corporate corporate reputation and, obviously, our racing DNA, is it.
gargantini_m: forces us to to pursue excellence and.
gargantini_m: and excellence does not only.
gargantini_m: competing to be faster, let me say, but also enabling.
gargantini_m: Ordinary people to do extraordinary things, so this is a first driver, let me say, and obviously Alex is inspire us and the biker was developed by our coalition collaboration and or initiative.
gargantini_m: On the initiative of Alexander bernardi but.
gargantini_m: He was born with the ambition to raise the technical level of competition during their see cycling Paralympics game and as well.
gargantini_m: As to make this sports more accessible.
gargantini_m: For aspiring athletes, let me see.
gargantini_m: Obviously.
gargantini_m: We didn't stop there Okay, and because also assistive device must be inclusive and therefore after the trial searches by Alex with the bike we have worked to make the same technology available to other athletes.
gargantini_m: Very difficult challenge was to make this bike accessible at the competitive price, let me say.
gargantini_m: Obviously, there is that could not be taken for granted, because the physical needs and the skill of every.
gargantini_m: Disabled that person, let me say can be very different from others, so this is a very big challenge for us, and yet the teamwork humility curiosity that distinguish our people curiosity and humility, is the is to our.
gargantini_m: Company values, let me say a distinguished us distinguish Alex Alex for sure, and made the this utopia, let me say something that reality, obviously.
gargantini_m: Those challenge, Dr assa and, obviously, then many extraordinary people and pursue pushing the limits.
gargantini_m: Driving our.
gargantini_m: And bike, let me say, and obviously disease, the.
gargantini_m: disease and will be, let me say our pride and pride of our people, so we start from the challenge, and if we change something during the visit what our journey.
Floriana Notarangelo: What I find very interesting in your work is is that, in general, in that technological sports you find the best engineers and the best technology technological sports and.
Floriana Notarangelo: Then those technology is bring to let's say the everyday life of people, and this is exactly what happened here like you brought the.
Floriana Notarangelo: highest technology, you can find new state of the art technology for Alexander to become.
Floriana Notarangelo: Olympic champion also here to become independent in is in the practice of a sport and then you brought it to the society which, which is exactly the same model replicated.
Floriana Notarangelo: So I highly encourage you to continue investing in in technologies in a high level sports, so that everyone can benefit from your learnings in the society every day.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you, thank you to everyone and just minding.
Floriana Notarangelo: My amazing the time I want, I want to go to the main key learnings of your journey over the past five years, for example, for karthik but, in general, over the past 10 years for Christian, because I know he's been working for that.
Floriana Notarangelo: Over the past 10 years the main key learnings for your journey and what were the main challenges.
Floriana Notarangelo: Barriers you overcame either internally or externally, so I can I can imagine the technological barrier but i'm.
Floriana Notarangelo: also interested in maybe the resistance you you found internally or externally and how you overcame that and how we can learn from that can we ask with can you start with a Christian, for example, is.
Christian Schinko: really very, very fast that the commitment of the top management is key within the company to drive this topic, because you you can't.
Christian Schinko: imply or.
Christian Schinko: translate the efforts for accessibility inclusion into the culture without the commitment of the management, the commitment we raised.
Christian Schinko: With sensing turn is, for example, now we put the management team into wheelchairs, to get to know and recognize the hurdles one in a wheelchair faces every day so it's it's it's crucial to have.
Christian Schinko: To have a central sensitization of the whole.
Christian Schinko: group of employees, because they are not visible and.
Christian Schinko: do a lot of biases.
Christian Schinko: And a lot of things they.
Christian Schinko: Which which can hinder you.
Christian Schinko: And you have the.
Christian Schinko: clear vision.
Christian Schinko: To you have to have the liberation to not only make products accessible inclusive for a group of 15% but for all.
Christian Schinko: It is convenient, also for the rest of all the customers and then people around to have an accessible barrier free branch, for example, if you have.
Christian Schinko: Your parents and you have kids and you scroll around with the push chair it's it's it's necessary to have an accessible entrance now.
Christian Schinko: In terms of corona corona put us in the position that we all became a vulnerable group, so it affects all it's for one group and large group convenience it's for the other ones.
Christian Schinko: And necessity to have accessibility and you have to train it in training, I learned from the last session is not a PowerPoint now training is hands on it's.
Christian Schinko: Putting people in the position of other oil in the shoes of people with disabilities.
Christian Schinko: employing people with disabilities that's a key factor and.
Christian Schinko: accessibility and inclusion is said it yesterday is not the project it's a process and will never stop and you'll never end.
Floriana Notarangelo: it's a process, exactly, and we were we have been working on inclusion of people with disabilities in Barry law for for the past years through our er geez and so on, but.
Floriana Notarangelo: This year we're going to accelerate and we really learn it's a process, we need to learn, piece by piece and start piece by piece by.
Floriana Notarangelo: Raising awareness internally, just as you mentioned, like experiencing, what is it what is it to be like.
Floriana Notarangelo: In a wheelchair, or maybe to be visually impaired, as you experienced karthik in in the school in India.
Floriana Notarangelo: So it really comes from personal experience, and then you start the journey and it's a process and it's a never ending journey, thank you for that Christian and also for your services it's really about making sure you make accessible.
Floriana Notarangelo: facilities to people.
Floriana Notarangelo: with disabilities to reach independence through inclusive loans, as you mentioned, and so on and so forth, so congratulations for that Gianluca.
Floriana Notarangelo: So many barriers internally challenges.
Gianluca Amatori: When the challenges are essentially related to promoting empowerment in our students in fact they they often tend not to present.
Gianluca Amatori: The diagnosis and not to expose themselves for fear of being marked in the academic path, so we have to work hard to get the message across.
Gianluca Amatori: that what we do is the application of of a fundamental right, and this is also important for the future of work.
Gianluca Amatori: Being being aware of one's own functioning is a is a fundamental requirement for the for self determination, and for this we try to we try to involve families of our students whenever possible.
Gianluca Amatori: Because they can be extraordinary allies in the sense.
Floriana Notarangelo: Thank you Jessica and what I would I would really received from your speech is that it starts with education, like.
Floriana Notarangelo: The young the younger you start and the younger you raise awareness and you educate yourself.
Floriana Notarangelo: To those matters and to the inclusion in general and, specifically, of people with disabilities, then you make managers you grow know you make you grow managers into more inclusive leaders that's absolutely key and thank you for that work.
Floriana Notarangelo: Since we have.
Floriana Notarangelo: Since we have only 15 minutes left.
Floriana Notarangelo: I will just ask one last question and then we'll take questions from the audience.
Floriana Notarangelo: What are, in your view, the next challenge for your industries to overcome since it's a process Christian right there are always challenges and barriers to overcome.
Floriana Notarangelo: So what, in your view of the next barrier or challenge to overcome for industries.
Floriana Notarangelo: To bring more inclusion and more independence to people with disabilities to customer with disabilities and then we start with karthik and then we'll ask you another specific question for envision.
Floriana Notarangelo: may be related to it, are you planning to develop other products, not only for visually impaired people, but for other people with disabilities, this is a question from the audience.
Floriana Notarangelo: And you're muted.
Floriana Notarangelo: yeah so okay just.
Karthik Kannan: A second question so yes.
Karthik Kannan: You know, we do see that our technologies can be helpful for people with other disability visual disabilities as well.
Karthik Kannan: Apart from people with a visual impairment so we're already starting to work with people who have.
Karthik Kannan: You know dementia dyslexia and other you know reading disabilities or learning disabilities are related to vision, so we are working, already a lot with you know those people.
Karthik Kannan: or those groups of people at the moment, and what we would be doing eventually is to bring the product.
Karthik Kannan: To those markets as well, so that is definitely on envisions roadmap, our aim is to build tools that affect over a billion people with some form of a visual impairment or another.
Karthik Kannan: we're starting with people with a visual impairment, you know that's about 300 million people across the world.
Karthik Kannan: But we definitely want to go ahead and impact as many lives as possible with computer vision with with our Ai technology so.
Karthik Kannan: that's one thing, the second thing is, I think what some of the main challenges still remain.
Karthik Kannan: In you know, in terms of bringing accessibility, or you know to more people is to still remains awareness and I think one of the key things that you know.
Karthik Kannan: Future products will have to solve is to bring accessibility into the product from day one right.
Karthik Kannan: For example, with smartphones it took almost you know five to six years we know after the introduction of a smartphone.
Karthik Kannan: To have any kind of accessibility technology built into it, an apple was the first you know company to build accessibility into its into its products into smartphones.
Karthik Kannan: With the iPhone you know, like the 3G that was released right so that was sort of the starting point, and then we now see that you know okay accessibility has picked up some more than smartphones when smart glasses go mainstream.
Karthik Kannan: You know, which is supposed to be the next form of computing that is there on the horizon.
Karthik Kannan: We, I hope that you know accessibility is put into it from day one.
Karthik Kannan: And that's what I think a lot of companies are also working on right now is to try and have accessibility in smart glasses, from the moment they become.
Karthik Kannan: mainstream so they took products become as inclusive as possible, I think that still needs to happen in other areas of in our technology products as well, so not just technology products.
Karthik Kannan: Hopefully, other products that get built on you know do have accessible versions of them come out at least so people are still able to experience them and use them.
Karthik Kannan: Just like how everyone else, without any kind of disabilities or impairment, is able to use them.
Karthik Kannan: Right and and and I think we've seen that working very, very closely with users, has been such an important aspect.
Karthik Kannan: To be able to do that, because you know i'm not visually impaired, a lot of people in our team are not visually impaired, so we have to.
Karthik Kannan: work very, very closely with the people you know who actually have the disability or the impairment.
Karthik Kannan: To really understand what kind of tools, what kind of products and services that we need to build for them.
Karthik Kannan: And that that happens only when we really sit down with large numbers of users, a large numbers of people from the Community, make it a point of interacting with them consistently.
Karthik Kannan: it's only then that I think we can have true accessibility built into products, otherwise it's just somebody some designers or some developers.
Karthik Kannan: or some corporate persons imagination Okay, this is where accessibility is in that's what it should be, but it should actually come from users first yeah.
Floriana Notarangelo: Great Thank you Thank you getting a really looking forward to to seeing what you're what you're going to be putting in the market next very, very inspiring Christian, can you share with us your view on what.
Floriana Notarangelo: Is the next challenge you.
Floriana Notarangelo: You feel is in your path to bring more accessibility to people.
Christian Schinko: it's on the one hand and fully agree with karthik.
Christian Schinko: The.
Christian Schinko: You have to put you have to include the.
Christian Schinko: Accessibility in each and every project each and every development of a product or service afterwards it costs costs huge amounts of money to make it back or Mickey already.
Christian Schinko: accessible, so this is the one one thing we always foster and emphasis here in Australia on and the other thing is to make more.
Christian Schinko: Suitable products and services for people with disabilities, like our vision alone we have inclusion alone, for we should we surely impaired people were be supports them in purchasing guidance talk guidance Doc or side stock or assistance talk or other accommodations or.
Christian Schinko: adoptions from the flat or something like that and we we have in the pipeline some projects and the ideas together with our disabled employees.
Christian Schinko: And that is to more offer products and services to people with disabilities and the next challenge, and the last challenge will be the digitalization, we have to face new devices, we have to bring our existing software and offers to these new devices to new.
Christian Schinko: Help some band aids and yet that's where that will be the day the challenges for the future for the next.
Floriana Notarangelo: year's Thank you Thank you Christian, thank you for your work and going to macworld so because there is a comment from.
Floriana Notarangelo: So before you tell us what is, in your view your next challenge, or what, what do you have in your roadmap for products for people with disabilities, I have a comment.
Floriana Notarangelo: From the audience congratulations to kudos to the ladder because they help people to see that people with disabilities can participate in a sport that no one could imagine.
Floriana Notarangelo: It takes us back to yesterday's keynote about expectations which the ladder is changing so you're really a change agent, not only in the sport industry but.
Floriana Notarangelo: In the I would say imagination common imagination common ground for everyone, like you push for what the limits for inclusion of people with disability so congratulations from the audience and, yes, we have a couple of minutes, can you share with us.
gargantini_m: What.
Were the things like.
Floriana Notarangelo: What is in your view, the next you know changing your roadmap.
gargantini_m: I think that we have to do some changes is our in our way to design product.
gargantini_m: me explain this point of view and our designer our focus on the product when they design a racing car, they are focused on the performance of the product and.
gargantini_m: The data by project Boucher so no change our point of view and look at the customer, let me say.
gargantini_m: We when you there's no racing car you think at the driver as a, let me say.
gargantini_m: fool liability driver and you are not focused on it, you are focused on the car.
gargantini_m: The bike changed our mind, we have to focus on our on our customer and internal needs, and we have several different needs and bike is a.
gargantini_m: us from people that can use cat use the leg or people that don't have the leg, let me say, and we have a very different situation, but we want to do a product that is not let me say totally tailor made on.
gargantini_m: The customer.
gargantini_m: And because this means higher higher costs, it means.
gargantini_m: That when you change it, when your body body changed, let me say, because the you became older our.
You.
gargantini_m: took some two or three kilos or lose two or three kilos so you have to redesign and re arousal the product with the product before the zettabytes we take a visit a bag that with the model, our product that you can adjust and these.
gargantini_m: make it accessible to all the people and then.
gargantini_m: They can so you can use the same set of bike.
gargantini_m: and adopted two different data.
gargantini_m: And they can use a very high level product and they can share the product, let me see if I add the product totally custom tailor made for me, obviously, you cannot use it with is it a bike with the summer.
gargantini_m: seemed very, very simple adjustment, we can share this product, so we can share the Costa, let me say and or.
gargantini_m: No profit company that was on on this, this can I don't know by to set up, I can share with all the people that they help in doing sport, and this is the meets the.
product that.
gargantini_m: grow their accessibility, let me say this is the.
gargantini_m: main point of view that disability or to the product.
gargantini_m: So I.
gargantini_m: Did it that challenge that we, we have to.
gargantini_m: Put in all other business that we work on it, let me say.
Floriana Notarangelo: So accessibility of the product to more people.
gargantini_m: So.
Floriana Notarangelo: that's, the main challenge because.
Floriana Notarangelo: For as far as I understand and it's very it's very understandable actually very clear, you made the product for it exactly, then you.
Floriana Notarangelo: That product was you, you, you were able to bring it to a larger audience now your next challenge is how to make sure that these high technology is accessible without.
Floriana Notarangelo: Too many costs to a higher audience, to a large to the society actually you know, right to the consumers in general.
Floriana Notarangelo: that's a I understand that's a huge challenge because coming from an industry, I mean the food industry it's totally different, but I know the kind of cost and.
Floriana Notarangelo: And process there is behind the development of a product, so I can only imagine what it means, with a higher technological product such as the database.
Floriana Notarangelo: Gianluca we have just a couple of minutes, since you are.
Floriana Notarangelo: In the education, industry and, as we say you grow future managers into more inclusive leaders, specifically for people with disabilities, my question to you is yes, about the challenge, but more as an advice to us as organizations.
Floriana Notarangelo: What would you advise us as organizations to make sure we increase.
Floriana Notarangelo: The awareness and inclusion and we become better better leaders more inclusive leaders, especially for people with disabilities, if you have any advice you.
Gianluca Amatori: Thank you for your question, I need I need, we have to build.
Gianluca Amatori: To increase the relationship between universities and and and and all the work that job work.
Gianluca Amatori: As you know, we are carrying out our POs graded course in disability and diversity management.
Gianluca Amatori: Of course, that has the end to evaluate the resources and potential of the worker to operate selection and retreating to accompany the developmental paths of people within organizations to promote.
Gianluca Amatori: Work inclusion welfare well being smart working and, finally, prevent discrimination and harassment in the workplace, but we have to link together university and organization.
Gianluca Amatori: i'm referring to organization and in private work, even in public in recent years, and at present to, we have also trained over.
Gianluca Amatori: 2000 support teachers who work in schools throughout Italy with pupils with disabilities and I think I think we should go over the barriers that separate the education world.
Gianluca Amatori: To the job and work was.
Floriana Notarangelo: very, very clear and.
Floriana Notarangelo: We will make sure that we will treasure your feedback on that.
Floriana Notarangelo: Because nobody because I mean really you're the research area right, so we can learn a lot from you and we can learn a lot from your experience in making our organizations more inclusive and our leaders were inclusive more inclusive, so we have just one minute to to conclude.
Floriana Notarangelo: If you have any other comments or integration, you would like to make, please let me know, otherwise I will wrap up.
Floriana Notarangelo: But i'm sure that your emails and contacts are accessible to the audience, so if there are any other questions coming from the audience, we will make sure that we will circle back to you.
Floriana Notarangelo: So thank you so much for your participation today today for the marketplace marketplace session we learned a lot about services and products for consumers with disabilities, congratulations for being award winners this year.
Floriana Notarangelo: We talked just to just a couple of rough couple of comments to wrap up our learnings today, so we talked about technology in highest high level sport that.
Floriana Notarangelo: That can be then replicated and that can be then absorbed by the mainstream in the society and bring technology for to make spot accessible to.
Floriana Notarangelo: A larger audience, we talked about how education can help us grow future manner future managers into inclusive leaders and as per your feedback how we need.
Floriana Notarangelo: to integrate the two worlds in the education industry works to grow our knowledge and and our our more inclusive world.
Floriana Notarangelo: In in our corporate organizations, we talked about how banking can make the society or more inclusive and more accessible to people by providing services to improve their everyday life, and thank you for that Christian and then we talked about how.
Floriana Notarangelo: design and Problem Solving approach can help people with disabilities.
Floriana Notarangelo: can make the world more accessible to people with disabilities and the end objective is making billions of people more independent in their everyday life, so thank you, thank you can't fake for that.
Floriana Notarangelo: You all your stories were very inspiring I might connect with you later to learn more about each of your experience and to bring that into into Mary law, thank you, thank you again, and I will I will then ask that on him to step in.
Nadine Vogel: Thank you everyone.
Nadine Vogel: Thank you for IANA you know it's interesting because.
Nadine Vogel: When you start connecting.
Nadine Vogel: The dots so all of you have said it's really about empowerment right it's empowering anyone with a disability or a caregiver to have the same.
Nadine Vogel: Access to whether it's banking or sports or education, whatever we're talking about me it's about empowerment and what I love about this session is that.
Nadine Vogel: We often speak about that internally for our employees, bringing your whole self to work, and you know things like that we very rarely talk about it on the consumer side.
Nadine Vogel: And so I love that you all did that and I just personally want to thank you, that was a fabulous awesome, though, is that i'll turn it back to you.
I Lopez: Thank you and thank you to floor deanna to Gianluca to karthik to well not under so Marco and to Christian appreciate it.
I Lopez: and
I Lopez: Thank you.